Subtlety is the PvP rogue in Forever: Preparation resets your cooldowns and Elusiveness takes 90 seconds off Vanish and Blind, so you get a second opener and a second escape. Four of six PvP lists rate it S. For PvE the tree was rebuilt around bleeds with the new capstone Death Mark, but it ranks B there and comes online late.
Talents and builds
The links open the talent calculator with the finished build, including why the points go where they go.
- Leveling: Subtlety leveling (points 6/14/31). The calculator shows the point-by-point order below the tree.
- Raid: Subtlety PvE (simulated) (points 28/2/21). The best simulated Hemorrhage setup for a two-minute boss fight on the reworked Rogue trees: Hemorrhage and Serrated Blades in Subtlety, with Malice and Relentless Strikes from Assassination.
- PvP: Subtlety PvP (points 14/10/27). Subtlety for PvP with Preparation, Elusiveness and Ghostly Strike, plus points in Assassination and Combat.
Where it ranks
| Category | Tier | Range |
|---|---|---|
| PvE DPS (raid) | B | C–B |
| PvE dungeon DPS (level 30) | B | C–A |
| PvP (battleground/open world) | S | A–S |
| Leveling | C | C–B |
- PvE DPS (raid): Nearly all sources say B, several new lists say C. The tree is built for PvP; in the raid Subtlety sits near the bottom of both simulations.
- PvP (battleground/open world): Four of six lists say S: Preparation resets cooldowns, Elusiveness shortens Vanish and Blind. That gives you a second opener and a way out.
- Leveling: B and C: built for control and PvP, slower than Combat while questing.
The tiers combine several tier lists and level-60 simulations. Raid logs only exist from 9 December, so treat this as a snapshot. Every spec side by side: rankings.
The new Subtlety tools
- Hemorrhage hits for 100% weapon damage, 145% with a dagger, adds a combo point and makes the target take 15% more damage from your Rupture and Garrote for 15 seconds. The old group-wide effect is gone.
- Ghostly Strike hits for 125%, 180% with a main-hand dagger, gives 15% dodge for 7 seconds and lets you use Ambush or Garrote without Stealth within those 7 seconds.
- Death Mark is a finisher for 25 energy on a 10-second cooldown at up to 20 yards. It stores part of the damage you deal, more per combo point and twice as much from Garrote and Rupture, and releases it after 6 seconds.
- Boot Knife at 5/5 makes Shank add two combo points. Initiative adds an extra point to Ambush, Garrote and Cheap Shot, Premeditation gives two points that you must use within 20 seconds.
Two ways to build it
The bleed build plays Garrote, Rupture and Hemorrhage and uses Death Mark as its burst. The Ambush build runs daggers and uses Ghostly Strike to Ambush in the middle of a fight. The linked raid build is a third variant: it drops Death Mark and Ghostly Strike and goes all in on Hemorrhage and Serrated Blades. Which one comes out ahead in raids is still open, so take the bleed build if you want to follow the rotation below.
Bleed rotation
- Premeditation, then open with Garrote.
- Keep Slice and Dice, Garrote (Ghostly Strike lets you reapply it), Rupture at five points and the Hemorrhage effect up.
- Death Mark at five points once Slice and Dice and Rupture are running. Pool energy for it.
- Premeditation whenever you are below four points, Shank when it won't cap your energy, then Ghostly Strike.
- Hemorrhage as filler. Eviscerate only with spare points.
Bleeds ignore armor, so the armor penetration from Serrated Blades doesn't help your Rupture, but its 30% Rupture damage does. Subtlety has no AoE.
Cooldowns
Preparation finishes the cooldowns of your other rogue abilities but restores no energy. Use it after Vanish for a second opener. With 2/2 Elusiveness, Vanish and Blind come back 90 seconds sooner.
Common mistakes
- Letting Slice and Dice or Rupture drop.
- Death Mark without five points or without bleeds running.
- Trying to Ambush without a dagger or from the front. Ghostly Strike only removes the Stealth requirement.
- Switching targets while you build combo points.
Leveling
Subtlety levels slowly, because its key talents sit deep in the tree: Hemorrhage and Preparation need 20 points, so level 30, and Death Mark needs 30, so level 40. The leveling build takes Hemorrhage at 32, Boot Knife from 37 and Death Mark at 42. It has the most staying power of the rogue specs but the least damage. Level as Combat and switch for PvP.
In groups
In dungeons and raids Subtlety sits behind Assassination and Combat. Its strength is fights where the second opener and Vanish matter, which mostly means PvP.
Further reading
- Rogue class guide: races, new abilities and every build of the class
- The other specs: Assassination Rogue, Combat Rogue
- Raid comp planner: put your raid together and see which buffs are still missing
- Rogue talent calculator: plan your own build and share it as a link
